Hi,
most reactions so far have been pro-childfree lifestyle, I was beginning to wonder if that was all we were going to get. Now that we have at least 2 comments favoring having children, I'd like to post my reactions as well. By the way, let us continue to bear in mind that this is an entirely subjective issue outside the purview of rights and wrongs – we are discussing the reasons we see in our own life for children, or not.
To begin with, I am beginning to wonder if we are becoming cynics. Could our attitudes in this matter be a reflection of our loss of hope for the future? Like Anush says, on what basis do we assume that our elders did not lead as full or even fuller lives that we do now? Could it be that children ensure that we stay interested in life, invested in the future, and are likely to be more mindful of world affairs, because we've bought into the future, and are interested in seeing the world continue to be a good place for our future generations?
One comment about the Taitreya Upanished is certainly a pointer in the same direction, but I cannot help but think about the fact that our elders have also preached breaking free from the bonds that we create for ourselves by investing in other human beings – in fact, some of India's most exalted thinkers have preached as well as practiced even utter renunciation from the ties of the family, thereby freeing oneself for larger social, if not spiritual causes.
Which brings me to the second thought – Anush, I should point out that none of the pro-childfree comments here state material reasons for their choice. Still, as Anush suggests, could it be an obsession with materialism that pushes us towards seeking a life where there is little or no demand on our time, energy, and mainly, our resources? I do know for a fact that my parents were much more willing to go without material luxuries for the sake of the family than I can claim to.
That being said, is wanting to be child-free automatically indicate materialist ambitions? While it does seem that it is a certain degree of selfishness (unwillingness to compromise on lifestyle, etc) that holds many of us back from having children, I am not sure that the attitude logically points to a selfish attitude and lifestyle. For one, my parents have a highly compassionate and charitable nature that sadly, could never be put to much use. Every time there is an opportunity to give of their limited resources or their time, their first and automatic concern has been as to how this would affect the time and resources that they have for their children. I wonder if, in fact, being invested in a family makes you relatively more selfish, from a social perspective.
A childfree couple has both more time and material resources to give to social causes – in fact, I've met childfree couples well into their middle age who are highly socially active. Wouldn't this also lead to a sense of purpose and fulfillment? Moreover, there can be little or no expectation of receiving anything in return when you volunteer your time and money for a social cause, whereas, when we give all that we have to a child, I am not sure how many of us have the maturity to not expect anything back, not even gratitude, or even general cause for pride.
Personally, while the prospect of a child somewhere in the future is indeed attractive at an emotional level, and while I am convinced that like everyone here, if I did have a child, i would love it to bits, I am only all-too aware of the reality that once I do have a child, I have no option but to be an ardent convert into religion of the enthusiastic parent, and that there is no backing out of a parenting situation, once one finds oneself in it. After all, if there is one thing that requires absolute and everlasting ideological commitment, childrearing has to be that thing. At least as of now, I am frankly intimidated by the finality of it.
For those of us who do not yet have children, this is the only chance we probably have to give it a fair thought – after having considered these issues, if we still find compelling reasons to have a child, I expect that will make the childrearing experience that much more rewarding.
Monday, August 13, 2007
Childfree by choice? comments as of Aug.13th
Anonymous said...
If you take the emotion out of it, it certainly seems a no-brainer.
The duration of the responsibility, and the sheer number of things that can be sources of problems should, at the least, provide food for thought.
And even if one is prepared to take it on, the question "What for?" looms large. For emotional kicks?
Karthic.
August 9, 2007 7:19 AM
MPK said...
Men and women are like other living creatures, they bring children into the world with little or no thought about the matter and then they suffer and toil as best as they can to rear them.
Men and women think that it is necessary to have children. It is not. It is their animal nature and social custom, rather than reason, which makes them believe that this is a necessity.
I belive that the first half of our lives is ruined by our parents, and the second half by our children and hence its best to Child Free
August 9, 2007 12:32 PM
sandy said...
oooh, MPK, I do not know who you are, but some pretty strong sentiment there!! Do you think children actually RUIN our lives? They often have an uncanny knack for making a nuisance of themselves, but why would you feel so strongly about it? Do post more.
August 9, 2007 1:12 PM
Anonymous said...
I think one of the first lessons we were ever taught is to follow the previous generation. Be it anything - from language to thinking patterns. To a great extent that is necessary for our social existence. If you think about it, creating a new generation is considered more of a social responsibility than an individual’s choice. At a macro level by creating a child one actually contributes to the larger species by preventing it from being extinct.
But looking at it from an individual’s point – I think most of us live by setting some meaningless milestones for ourselves. I would call it life patterns – many of which are just blindly inherited from our previous generations. We take it for granted and never think if it is actually required for the individual self. Again moment that life pattern is violated the society rates you as a failure. Hence we follow these life patterns to get acceptance in the larger society. This is true even in the case of marriage.
I remember this lady telling me that her life is empty without kids. She struggles to balance time between her job and daily chores. But the main motive for all what she does, always revolves around her kids. She never does what she actually wishes to do, for the fear of not giving enough time for her boys. And now it has reached a state where she does not have any other hobbies or interests in her life. When we were talking about this, one question was formulating in my mind. So finally what would happen to her when the kids go their way? I have seen that happening to my own my mother. She has spent all her life and energy around me. Now my circumstances force me to be away from her. The result – she feels lonely and gets into these emotional trips! But one thing is also true. If she had decided to live her life without a kid, I would not have existed to write this today ;-)
The thought of I having a kid is not exciting enough at least with my current mindset. May be if all what I said is true I bet my own opinion will change in future for sure. And who knows I may end up having more than one also
I would rather be diplomatic - I would decide it in a later stage in my life when I would be more mature and stable with my ability to decide.
By the way why should I be even discussing this – I am still to figure out if marriage is needed. Cant imagine thinking of a child even before being married :D! The society will butcher me off
August 10, 2007 5:07 AM
Anonymous said...
children are the best reminder that we're still apes
August 10, 2007 5:45 AM
anush said...
I have a few friends who are well established in whatever things that they have been doing. They have all come back to one common thing - a home which reminds them only of their material laurels.
To all of them i spin out my grandma's life story. She lived to be 90. She had half a dozen children and a dozen grand children. I have seen nobody live a full life like her.At 90 she was pleased and contended with herself taking things in her stride and died a natural death reveling in the grandeur that she had brought to her life.
Someone had mentioned before in this blog that we follow blindly what our previous generations had to offer. If they taught us how to live, if they taught us happiness, and you thank them for what you are today. Then there would be no doubt that they have shown you an easiest way to fill your life.
August 12, 2007 9:51 PM
If you take the emotion out of it, it certainly seems a no-brainer.
The duration of the responsibility, and the sheer number of things that can be sources of problems should, at the least, provide food for thought.
And even if one is prepared to take it on, the question "What for?" looms large. For emotional kicks?
Karthic.
August 9, 2007 7:19 AM
MPK said...
Men and women are like other living creatures, they bring children into the world with little or no thought about the matter and then they suffer and toil as best as they can to rear them.
Men and women think that it is necessary to have children. It is not. It is their animal nature and social custom, rather than reason, which makes them believe that this is a necessity.
I belive that the first half of our lives is ruined by our parents, and the second half by our children and hence its best to Child Free
August 9, 2007 12:32 PM
sandy said...
oooh, MPK, I do not know who you are, but some pretty strong sentiment there!! Do you think children actually RUIN our lives? They often have an uncanny knack for making a nuisance of themselves, but why would you feel so strongly about it? Do post more.
August 9, 2007 1:12 PM
Anonymous said...
I think one of the first lessons we were ever taught is to follow the previous generation. Be it anything - from language to thinking patterns. To a great extent that is necessary for our social existence. If you think about it, creating a new generation is considered more of a social responsibility than an individual’s choice. At a macro level by creating a child one actually contributes to the larger species by preventing it from being extinct.
But looking at it from an individual’s point – I think most of us live by setting some meaningless milestones for ourselves. I would call it life patterns – many of which are just blindly inherited from our previous generations. We take it for granted and never think if it is actually required for the individual self. Again moment that life pattern is violated the society rates you as a failure. Hence we follow these life patterns to get acceptance in the larger society. This is true even in the case of marriage.
I remember this lady telling me that her life is empty without kids. She struggles to balance time between her job and daily chores. But the main motive for all what she does, always revolves around her kids. She never does what she actually wishes to do, for the fear of not giving enough time for her boys. And now it has reached a state where she does not have any other hobbies or interests in her life. When we were talking about this, one question was formulating in my mind. So finally what would happen to her when the kids go their way? I have seen that happening to my own my mother. She has spent all her life and energy around me. Now my circumstances force me to be away from her. The result – she feels lonely and gets into these emotional trips! But one thing is also true. If she had decided to live her life without a kid, I would not have existed to write this today ;-)
The thought of I having a kid is not exciting enough at least with my current mindset. May be if all what I said is true I bet my own opinion will change in future for sure. And who knows I may end up having more than one also
I would rather be diplomatic - I would decide it in a later stage in my life when I would be more mature and stable with my ability to decide.
By the way why should I be even discussing this – I am still to figure out if marriage is needed. Cant imagine thinking of a child even before being married :D! The society will butcher me off
August 10, 2007 5:07 AM
Anonymous said...
children are the best reminder that we're still apes
August 10, 2007 5:45 AM
anush said...
I have a few friends who are well established in whatever things that they have been doing. They have all come back to one common thing - a home which reminds them only of their material laurels.
To all of them i spin out my grandma's life story. She lived to be 90. She had half a dozen children and a dozen grand children. I have seen nobody live a full life like her.At 90 she was pleased and contended with herself taking things in her stride and died a natural death reveling in the grandeur that she had brought to her life.
Someone had mentioned before in this blog that we follow blindly what our previous generations had to offer. If they taught us how to live, if they taught us happiness, and you thank them for what you are today. Then there would be no doubt that they have shown you an easiest way to fill your life.
August 12, 2007 9:51 PM
Thursday, August 9, 2007
Childfree by choice? part 1
Here is a controversial topic and I expect to receive a lot of flak.
The topic: Child-free by choice.
I do not mean the online forum by that name, I actually mean, staying child-free by choice.
Question: How many of you think there is a good chance you'll never have kids because of choice? If you were given a choice not to have kids, would you consider it?
I request everyone of you to make some sort of a contribution – this topic has the potential for interesting discussion and debate, and i would love to see it fulfilled.
People who want to speak FOR having kids, please feel free, this is not a den of ultra-liberal "godless hellions" (thank you Stephen Colbert) waiting to devour you for your ideas. A good number of us are probably not so godless, most of us don't make decent hellions, and in fact, if everyone is like me, we are all perfectly undecided about most issues.
Also, for those of you who hesitate to speak FOR living child-free, only because you might actually end up having kid, and you don't want the things you've said now to stay on record - perfectly valid point. If you so wish, please post anonymous comments, no issues with that.
Importantly, there is absolutely no judgment here, so please feel free to speak you mind, while staying polite and objective. This is an entirely open discussion.
I do not want to start with my opinion, so as not to color the discussion before it even begins. I will say, however, that I am entirely ambivalent. Having grown up in a household of several kids, I adore children, and catch myself day-dreaming about having my own. That being said, I also adore my current freedom from crushing responsibility.
Opinions please!
The topic: Child-free by choice.
I do not mean the online forum by that name, I actually mean, staying child-free by choice.
Question: How many of you think there is a good chance you'll never have kids because of choice? If you were given a choice not to have kids, would you consider it?
I request everyone of you to make some sort of a contribution – this topic has the potential for interesting discussion and debate, and i would love to see it fulfilled.
People who want to speak FOR having kids, please feel free, this is not a den of ultra-liberal "godless hellions" (thank you Stephen Colbert) waiting to devour you for your ideas. A good number of us are probably not so godless, most of us don't make decent hellions, and in fact, if everyone is like me, we are all perfectly undecided about most issues.
Also, for those of you who hesitate to speak FOR living child-free, only because you might actually end up having kid, and you don't want the things you've said now to stay on record - perfectly valid point. If you so wish, please post anonymous comments, no issues with that.
Importantly, there is absolutely no judgment here, so please feel free to speak you mind, while staying polite and objective. This is an entirely open discussion.
I do not want to start with my opinion, so as not to color the discussion before it even begins. I will say, however, that I am entirely ambivalent. Having grown up in a household of several kids, I adore children, and catch myself day-dreaming about having my own. That being said, I also adore my current freedom from crushing responsibility.
Opinions please!
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